Interview by Matteo Pini
Portrait by Stefano Venturi

MP Your current exhibition at the Serpentine is entitled THE DELUSION. Whose delusion is it?

DBS It’s all our delusions. Propaganda and self-censorship live within us: we censor ourselves more than we censor each other. On X or Instagram, you’ll probably not post certain things without thinking about them meeting the platform’s terms of service: you might say, “unalive” instead of “dead”. A lot of us live with delusions, and we use the word “delusion” to separate ourselves from those who we have decided think illogically. But having hope in a time where everything seems to be falling apart is delusional. Not all delusions are negative, but it’s also good to know which ones are hurting us and which ones could potentially help others. When governments are creating new belief systems that they want to push, it’s good to know where yours is currently.

MP The installation centres around several different games intended to be played communally. The games are exceptionally difficult, but become easier when played together. Was this to remind audiences of interpersonal accountability?

DBS It’s a massive resistance to what the art world has become – so “nice” and so easy to be in. I’m tired of this spoon-feeding: if someone comes in and then says, “I hate your show, you’re so shit”, that response is so much better than “Oh, what a beautiful show.” We’re not in a time where we can make beautiful shows, because in five years, I might not be programmed for shows anymore. I might not be able to use the bathroom or fly to America. The aim isn’t to make a pretty artwork you can hang on your wall; it’s to make you question your position.

MP While playing, the audience is both performer and subject. What modes of participation were you thinking about during production? 

DBS We had conversations about the levels of participation in the space: if someone is observing and don’t feel comfortable interacting, what does that mean? Saying you don’t want to take part is a choice, but it will affect everyone else because the game is intended to be played communally. We embrace all those interactions – the awkwardness, the frustrations, the annoyance, the desire for more clarity. We wanted to avoid the top-down way of thinking we see on platforms like Twitch and YouTube. In the exhibition, there are references to current issues – war, censorship, gender, protest – but you have to bring your own point of view.

MP  What were the challenges and pleasures of developing the game itself?

DBS Big shout-out to Tamar Clarke-Brown and the Serpentine Arts Technologies team, who were amazing. It was the hardest game I’ve developed because there wasn’t a story that pinpointed every scene. A lot of the scenes are asking questions of the audience: it’s basically one massive questionnaire, and I was constantly rearranging images to make each frame feel right. Usually, my practice is more direct – if I’m upset, I make a scene about pain and move on – but this was about evoking an essence instead of a story. We also wrote many of the systems in the game engine (UPBGE) ourselves, like the dialogue or the music. Whenever you added something new, it broke something else – it was a constant process of fixing and rebuilding. It was like pulling teeth!

MP The animation has a similar texture to games like Doom and Lara Croft. What about that particular era of gaming animation did you want to draw upon?

DBS A lot of it is influenced by two particular games, Might and Magic VI, and a mod of Doom II called MyHouse.wad, based on Mark Z. Danielewski’s House of Leaves. The animations are based on FMV cut-scenes from 1994 and 1995, and the puppets are based on South Park puppets. The DIY culture and animation I love uses this South Park style of mouth movement, of mouths opening and closing crudely, because it’s super easy and cheap to do, and the techniques were shortcuts from the 1990s that allowed games to exist on consoles with a much smaller capacity. 

MP Parts of the game design are made from human elements – the grass is from a photo of an eye. What was important about bringing humans into the digital sphere?

DBS  My design philosophy is that if we use a person’s body to create the world, even if it’s not necessarily literal, then that 3D can hold their story better. If you use pre-made assets, there is always an emptiness, even if the story is beautiful. That’s not necessarily negative, but it feels diluted from the real world. Using images of people to make a mundane texture like the floor, even if you don’t notice it, makes it feel like there’s a soul and a hand that has touched everything.

MP The drawings that flank the games reflect emotions that Sianne Ngai might call “ugly feelings”: stress, paranoia, disgust. What do these represent for you conceptually?

DBS Many of the drawings came from news headlines, or polarising conversations. On X, I was recommended a photo of an Israeli soldier in Gaza with rubble behind them. I didn’t know how to process that imagery: I hadn’t even signed up to anything on the site. The WAR CRIME drawing (2025) is a direct reaction to that, a representation of uncomfortable, complex feelings. I’m trying to offer a moment to reflect on those moments. Repercussions in our current system are very warped: if you apologise, you’re more likely to face consequences than if you don’t. It’s a strange world, and I’m trying to offer a pure reflection of that. .